Selling Electronic Copies Of Class Groups (and Protecting The Copyright?)

Hi everyone
I am relatively new to Sytist but soooo pleased to be on board. Thank you Tim for such a great product!
I'm wondering if anyone else is in the same boat as me around offering electronic record keeping for class groups? I am finding that it's becoming more and more desirable by customers, however the protection of the files becomes difficult. Where possible (mostly private schools) I offer a contract to the school and they pay for the 'photography service' which then entitles all of their students/parents to download the photographs for electronic record keeping at no additional charge. If they wish to add a print to their cart then that is delivered to them directly. (like the cream for the sales)
However public schools do not have a budget for such a service and user pays is the only way. Has anyone got any wonderful ways to offer electronic record keeping (downloads) on a user pays system without risking the students and parents just sharing the file once downloaded? I would love to hear from you!
Thank you.

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I would like a clarification. When you say class groups do you mean a group photo of each teachers class. Such as Mrs. Smith would have a photo of her class and Mr. Jones would have a photo of his class and then parents would by the photo of their childs class? If this is what you are doing do you do the school picture head shots also? Now, with those questions being asked, as you know, once the electronic version is out there it is going to be shared.

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Hi Steve, yes I mean class groups of for example 26 students with their teacher. I do also do individual portraits of each child. Some schools operate a prepaid system for these, some we take all students and give them the option to purchase and some everyone gets one by default (on account) so it just depends on the contract with the particular school.
Yes, I want to be able to offer the electronic record (I am all for electronic record keeping) but it's maintaining and protecting the copyright that is pretty much impossible. I wondered about using the pay to view feature that provided a credit towards an individual portrait or class print and if it reaches a certain level then the electronic record is released for sharing (in line with my strict privacy policy around that) ... I wondered if anyone has done something similar?
Thank you.

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There's no chance, once you sold the jpeg to one,99 will get it for free.
Either you sell prints, or you ask for a price per person in the photo for the jpeg, I mean 5$ each, so for a class of 14 you ask 70$ for a class of 20 100$ and so on.
You get a reasonable price and then they can share a reasonable cost.
If someone of the class does not want to pay it's their problem so if for the class of 14 only 10 want the photo you still get 70$ but the individual price will be 7$
If they do no accept ,well they won't get the photo.It seem a cruel thinking, but there is no other way to protect our work, thinking that many people share our photos even with our copyright logo and they are happy just with that.

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Hi Marco
Yes, and where I can get the schools on board they are actually paying for the files as a 'service fee' so the cost is covered (kind of as you suggest above) and we can offer the electronic records to the students/parents.
What I am trying to achieve is a process whereby this could work on a user pays system. So somehow protecting the files so that they can't be copied or screen shot (I know banks have some kind of technology that prevents screen snipping). That is probably a long shot.

Rather I am wondering if anyone has created a system like I suggested where perhaps a file is locked until a certain payment is reached. I was thinking each payment could also receive a credit towards a print. OR perhaps if a certain number of prints are purchased the file is then un locked for electronic download.

It's important to keep the administration managed by my website as a big selling point with my contracts is minimum administration required by the schools. I thought someone else may have already trialed this idea? If so, I would love to hear from you.

Thank you.

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As they have universal value, class photos are sold as prints.

No exceptions.

This doesn't stop them scanning or rephotographing, so some will have a larger head and shoulders shot of their child covering part of the print, rather than by the side, removing the universal value.

Edited Thu Apr 12, 18 5:08 AM by Trailboy

Thanks for your reply. I still feel that there is value in trying to move with the times and figure out a way to be able to offer them as electronic records. I will look further into the paid access feature to see if I can make it work.

I'm interested in your larger head and shoulders shot covering part of the print - could you attach an example? Thanks again.

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Selling universal value products that are trivially copied, among friends that meet each other every day, is not a business model worth having. School photography only operates in its current format if a profit can be made.

I only do large format class print nowadays (as typical parents might only have an A4 scanner), and then only several years apart as they are not big sellers at all - probably due to copying.

The only difference is annual school leavers, which are only photographed on the basis that schools pay for them as leavers gifts for pupils.

Not at my workstation currently.

Edited Thu Apr 12, 18 10:44 AM by Trailboy

Also, just for liabilities sake I don't sell digital files of groups. You do not have permission of everyone in the group to sell their image. If someone takes the face of a child and manipulates it into child porn you could be complicit in providing the file. If you just sell prints, they have broken the law by copying the image to manipulate. This limits your liability. Just look at the viral video last week of the child that was scared by the Easter Bunny coming into a classroom. Everyone involved is now getting sued. Always "Cover Your A**".

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Offering a group digital download for a nominal fee will result in less income for the photographer. Once publicly available to one or two persons will be used by everyone FREE!. The only way around it would be to charge a significant fee the same if you sold a print to each person in the photograph.

I have seen group photos hanging on someone's home wall with the copyright watermark thick you can hardly see subjects in the photo. Obvious the image was posted FREE online for someone to review only and it was used. People love FREE! Even Watermark Free!

Moving with the times in this instance generally results in devaluation of ones work.

There's an old saying. Some learn by reading. Some learn by doing. Everyone else has to pee on the fence to find out for themselves. Some of those go bankrupt.

Be sure to let us know if you discover a method not mentioned here. It would benefit about every photographer on the forum.

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Thank you for your responses!

Brian I totally understand the liabilities and have had a robust legal document written professionally. When people checkout they agree to the privacy terms and conditions (of not sharing the file unless they have permission from all persons featured etc etc in official legal terminology for NZ law!) - that's how I cover my A*!

M Davis - Already I have seen students take a pxt of a friends class or year group photo PRINT - and there they have it - their electronic record - for FREE! Just another way they are keeping up with the times ahead of us! My approach is to embrace how technology is affecting our industry rather than fight the wishes of our customers. Obviously I approach it with caution and research. I'm pretty sure after 10 successful years in business I won't let it make me bankrupt! I have already implemented this service very successfully with some Colleges. It is just about selling the concept and the value to the schools and parents. They pay a justified 'service fee' for the images and they are loaded to my website for free download. At the moment I am still getting a lot of what I call 'cream on top' orders where some parents are also purchasing prints. This way it suits the school (they also have access to all the files for their school yearbooks), suits the College kids for sure, and suits parents having both electronic record keeping (without the need to scan a print) as well as print options for the more traditional. To me, this is future proofing our industry - to ensure we still get paid for our services. I agree that people love free - why not give them that sense of 'free' - free downloads! That behind the scenes the schools have well and truly paid for. It's a service fee for which they receive the files for their yearbook and their school archives. Electronic archiving and Alumni is also growing immensely which this system perfectly feeds. So there is a model/method that is working well! I'm still investigating and welcoming feedback from other photographers how this could somehow be implemented on a user pays system.
I look forward to more feedback.

Edited Sat Apr 14, 18 3:01 PM by Brooke Woollett

I'm guessing that NZ is a less litigious society. Here in the US just the cost of defending yourself from a lawsuit, no matter how frivolous, could bankrupt you. And people will sue here at the drop of a hat. So the best thing to do is not give anyone any opening. Our society has taken on an attitude of "nothing is my fault". Even though 99% of the bad things that happen to people are the results of their own bad decisions, here in the US that is sadly not the prevalent thinking of the majority of the population.

I absolutely agree that we must find ways to deliver digital files to peoples devices. And we must find a way to do it with a sustainable profit. These are challenging times for photographers as we evolve into this new business model.

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